This thread didn't fit my usual criteria for posting on my web site, but because it was so good and because BellTalk does not archive their messages, I thought I would save it here for others to read. All these messages were written on December 21st, 1998.
Our handbell choir started about 3 months ago, and I'm afraid that I may have created a monster....
Here's the skinny - I have really stressed counting and making sure people keep the beat. We're only doing music with no more than quarter notes right now, but people are still getting lost and confused. They've marked their own music, color coded it, and everything. But I think that may be their problem.
It shocked me yesterday when one of the members said to me, "If only I had earplugs, I could keep my place. When I hear the other bells, it makes me confused." I should have prefaced everything by saying that these are, for the most part, non-music reading ringers who have great devotion to the group. I really don't have anything (anyone) else to work with, and I want the group to grow musically.
What I need help with is some way to convey the "play as a group" message to everyone. I've lectured them on "listening" as well as playing, but it doesn't seem to sink in. Specifically, I need some technical (specific exercises) that will train them to listen to the group and see where their notes fit in. In addition, they're all concentrating so hard on their music, I rarely see an eye look at me. I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better to teach it to them by rote?
I would appreciate any and all advice. Either to the list or to me privately at bbaltes@npgcable.net , whichever you would deem appropriate.
Sincerely,
Ben Baltes
bbaltes@npgcable.net
Director of Music
Grace Episcopal Church
[belltalk] new group
Hi all and Ben,
Boy, does this sound familiar!!! My group is in their 4th year and 1/2 are "non musicians". It took playing A LOT of chords and easy music for them to finally hear what someone else was doing and not get messed up! There are a lot of training books available and they are a help. For my group, it seems time and keep playing are the only answer. They mark their music (who need it) and we just keep plugging away. I have them do the counting (which they say messes them up) but I do see them being able to stay together better when THEY count. They all can't count out loud at different tempos. As for looking up, well, my group still says if they take their eyes off the music, they will never find their place again. This is hard with non music readers, they can't follow along as well as someone who reads. I have them take turns "getting lost on purpose" and trying to find their place. I emphasize "road maps" to look for and go from there. Three months of playing isn't a very long time, we've been at it 4 years and I still have some of the same problems at times. Stick with it especially if they are a dedicated group. It will get better. Don't push too hard.
Sue Conant
raconant@eee.org
Victorville UMC, Ca.
(Where it was 15 this a.m.! Burr.. Too cold for So. Cal.)
Re: [belltalk] Fw: ADVICE, PLEASE
Ben Baltes wrote:
> Our handbell choir started about 3 months ago, and I'm
> afraid that I may have created a monster....
>
> It shocked me yesterday when one of the members said to
> me, "If only I had earplugs, I could keep my place. When
> I hear the other bells, it makes me confused." I should
> have prefaced everything by saying that these are, for
> the most part, non-music reading ringers who have great
> devotion to the group.
You haven't created a monster .. you have created a musical group from scratch. You have devoted ringers who love the bell choir (and presumably, you too).
So they're still getting confused - well, they're still babies, musically. Be patient with them - it will click someday.
> I really don't have anything (anyone) else to
> work with, and I want the group to grow musically.
Sounds like you've got them off to a good start, and they will grow musically.
> What I need help with is some way to convey the "play as
> a group" message to everyone. I've lectured them on
> "listening" as well as playing, but it doesn't seem to
> sink in.
Yes, you're right - they need to trust their ears as much as they trust their eyes. But you are not asking academic knowledge from them - you're asking them to perform a specific skill - listening and ringing with the group. They can "understand" the concept of ringing together, yet still need practice to "perform" the concept. So do some warm-ups each week - scales, scales in thirds, crescendos, diminuendos, scales in contrary motion. Anything to get their paying attention to their motion, not the printed page. Teach them some ostinatos by rote to get them used to keeping rhythm and tempo. And continue to drill on their note reading skills. Have them sing along when they're reading - sing the counts out loud, or just sing whatever count each one plays on. Vary it from week to week. State your objective up front: "We're going to learn measures 4 through 8 at a slow tempo, then we will speed it up a little." or whatever.
> In addition, they're all concentrating so hard on their
> music, I rarely see an eye look at me.
You're going to have to compromise a bit on this right now. Decide what places you really NEED their attention, say the first measure to establish the tempo, and the fermata in measure 22. Have them mark these places in their music, and rehearse the looking up at you, then back down at their music. It may take a while, but they'll get it.
> I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better to teach it to
> them by rote?
Nah.
Trust yourself - I'll bet you're a good teacher. Give them time to learn these new skills, and you'll have a fine group after a while.
Ben has raised some questions that we all face from time to time and already some great replies have been posted.
I would address just one small point. Ringers can watch their music and still see the director... Try this... while you are reading aloud the text from something...maybe the name and composer, have one of them raise one of their hands... if you are watching, you can immediately tell them right or left while you are reading... Now have them do it... they can learn to watch you with the edge of their vision...
It is also a good idea to enlarge your pattern when you come to a tempo change or other important change...
Keep up the good work...don't be afraid of easy music. People love the sound of bells no matter the difficulty of the music.
Bill Ingram
bfingram@yahoo.com
[belltalk] ADVICE, PLEASE
Ben,
Some exercises such as the cross and stretch may be useful. This, and other peals, help the ringers get accustomed to hearing the other bells and learning when their bells fit in the sequence.
Another approach is to have them play only the melody line of the piece. Once they get the melody line down, have them add the remaining parts a little at a time. For example, if the piece has a countermelody, have them play that, then add it with the melody. Add in chords that help emphasize the rhythm pattern. Then have them put it all together.
You might rearrange the tables so they are ringing in a U-shape so they can hear the other parts more clearly. This is particularly helpful for the lower notes that form the root of most chords. If they can easily hear the melody lines, it is easier to accompany them rather than worry so much about counting and keeping their heads in their music and bells.
Some of your ringers may not be conformable ringing with both hands. Try some exercises of just ringing bells in each hand to different cadences. Be creative here. For example, have them all pick up bells making chromatic scales. Start with the highest bell ringing a 3/4 measure. Have the third down join after a measure, making certain they keep the 3/4 tempo with a slight emphasis on the first beat (ONE, two, three, ONE, two, three ...). Keep this pattern until all are ringing. Then have them alternate hands on alternate measures. Have them ring the first beat with their left hand and the second and third beats with their right hand. Use 4/4 and 6/8 rhythms. Mix up the rhythms with ones they will encounter in pieces they are learning. The whole idea is to get them accustomed to different rhythms, ringing with both hands, and hearing the whole group.
I strongly discourage teaching them by rote except as a first step which they know will end very quickly. Rote learning means they will only know their notes in a specific piece. If they need to move to another bell assignment, they'll have to completely relearn the piece. Their ability to learn new pieces will be severely limited by rote learning as well. Let them know that the first several times through a piece WILL SOUND WRONG. This is expected, and this is why they practice. Each time through should sound a little bit better. A note sequence will get smoother.
Arthur Rubenstein used to practice for 6-8 hours every day, seven days a week. His reply when asked why he practiced so much was, "If I practice enough, I will get it just right."
Parker G. Emerson
parker@emersonenterprises.com
Emerson Enterprises
Music Division
Re: [belltalk] Fw: ADVICE, PLEASE
Ben and all on Belltalk;
Created a monster? Yup you sure did! And how would I know that? In October 1997 I proposed to our music committee that we look into purchasing handbells, thinking perhaps in a couple years we might raise money for 2 octaves. In six months we had demos from Shullie and Malmark, chose Malmark, presented the buy a bell plan to the congregation, raised pledges for all 25 bells, ordered, received them, and people started complaining! It seems our "summer snowbird congregation" had returned from Florida and hadn't had the opportunity to purchase memorial bells! With pledges for seven bells, we ordered the third octave, five bells on faith. Those now are all pledged, too!
I started over a year ago to learn all I could about bells, ringing, conducting bells, directing a bell choir, and in general absorbing all the information I could and taking great delight in meeting some of the finest people I have met in my long career in music!
We have rung a couple times in church now, and we have used the bells with the organ in a prelude. My granddaughter and I rang a duet in church last Sunday. I have ringers who say "I can't do that!" and I simply ignore that statement or say "who says?". Then we proceed to do it! I have ringers that learn something the first time through and then I have to make sure I keep them occupied. I have ringers that need to be led through something many times and then be too timid to ring it when the time comes! I have rung to fill in for missing ringers. I have had people ring multiple bells when they were really stretching their ability to do it. I have gone home from some rehearsals wondering why I ever did this in the first place. But then, I have had the same feeling after some vocal choir rehearsals too. I could go on and on, but I will spare you for now.
Created a monster? There is no doubt in my mind that you did, and so did I. We have created monsters of the most lovable, ornery, affectionate, unpredictable, rewarding, demanding nature imaginable. Have you watched the frustration turn to ecstasy as they individually and collectively realize as one of my ringers shouted recently, WE NAILED IT!!!!!!!! And indeed we did!
Would I do it again? Without hesitation. And so, I hope, would you.
Warren G. Marble
marble@ids.net
Marble Organ Co.
MOM First Congregational Church
Warwick, RI
Re: [belltalk] Fw: ADVICE, PLEASE
Ben, you could be describing my group about a year ago ... You can bet that I am taking notes on all the excellent suggestions that have been offered so far.
I'll add to the list several things that have really helped us along, all of them suggested by others when I asked similar questions.
I am working with the organist to plan that, on the Sundays we ring (about once a month), one congregational hymn is a straightforward one with a steady meter and no surprises. Usually either he or I will write in doubled notes for the highest and lowest bells since we have five octaves of bells, but otherwise we ring right from the hymnal arrangement, with the organ (and the congregation singing). It has done wonders for getting us to listen and keep up to speed, two of our major growing edges. It has also done good things for our confidence. Yesterday we rang "Come Thou Long-Expected Jesus" and on Christmas Eve we will ring "While Shepherds Watch Their Flocks by Night." It's hard to avoid listening to the bigger picture when that bigger picture is an organ!!
At a conference last summer I learned about choosing bells on a pentatonic scale to have the ringers practice ringing something that isn't written out in front of them. Using pentatonic notes makes it sound relatively harmonic. We've tried using all the sharps to do this, and it is an interesting sound. Each ringer picks his or her own particular pattern (for example, in 4/4 time, it might be ring-rest-rest-ring) and then sticks to it. This can be done with one or two hands. Besides listening to each other (is anyone else ringing the same pattern you are?), it's also a good time to work on arm motions. For our group, at least, it has helped us ring a bit more cohesively.
Finally, also at a conference, I learned about those "ring and sing" hymn collections (sorry, I can't remember the exact title) which consist of a text with some syllables circled and some underlined. If you aren't familiar with these, there are eight books, one for each of eight different bells in an octave. The ringer rings on the circled syllable and damps on the underlined ones. It doesn't do a thing for reading music, but it has really helped us ring together and be able to ring and sing at the same time. If the ringers aren't listening to each other, both with ringing and with singing, it falls apart!
As for watching you: it will happen. We too are in the process of getting music risers (we are building ours), and working on the lighting situation, because of this very problem. However, be encouraged -- a few weeks ago, one of my ringers asked a specific question about something I had just directed. Hallelujah! They are beginning to watch the director!!
Believe me, it just keeps getting better and better!
Suzy Gazlay
SuzyG@aol.com
St. James Episcopal Cathedral
Fresno, CA
[belltalk] Frustration
The postings today couldn't have come at a better time! My bell choir performed last night at our annual Lessons and Carols and I was soooo discouraged. Our group started four years ago with players ranging from totally nonmusical to very accomplished, with me as the director with no bell experience, but a former piano teacher. We have come a long way, but it seems like each performance is a disaster waiting to happen!
First our warm up time was rushed due to sandwiching between everyone needing the sanctuary plus half my bells are in the choir (singing) who also have to warm up. Then two can't get off work, one has a kitchen disaster and is late, one is always late, etc. We pull it together and I know my melody group will compensate for the bass notes who have a hard time keeping the beat (one of whom is my dear husband) so we should be O.K. So I sweat through the Lessons and Carols thinking why do I put myself through this stress every year (in between desperate prayers). So what happens, my melody falls apart on the introduction, one of my most reliable players turns the page at the wrong time and causes two others to get lost and the bass notes are perfect! All in all, it was probably one of our better performances and I think added to the service overall. But I was exhausted!
So forgive my rave! Am I the only one who experiences this? Back to the basics in January. The suggestions today have been great.
One thing I have not seen addressed is rules. I stress how important everyone is and how bad it is to miss, etc. But does anyone make rules about missing "dress rehearsal" you don't play? Or late to choir you have to play chimes? The problem with the first rule that I see is there are some who, if they miss I couldn't do without them. I have two players who can pick up any position and play. Our bell choir is a ministry, and I try to keep that in mind. But I get so frustrated! Our group for the most part are just so busy, but some are flakier than others! However, I think they have fun and bells gives some the opportunity to make music who couldn't otherwise.
Again, pardon my lengthiness! I would appreciate any suggestions, either public or private.
My name is Humberto Herrera, I live in Mexico City, and here we have a lot of troubles with our music level...and I pray again and again
And God does everything...so don't worry Suzy... God will be with you and with your choir...I will pray for you...
In Christ
Humberto Herrera
Humberto_Herrera@lam.sel.sony.com
[belltalk] What perfect timing!
This is quit ironic. Everything that everyone has been talking about is exactly what I needed to know/hear/read. I am planning to do a lot of technique training in January and some in February. I also have a retreat planned in January. Just a Friday night into the early part of a Saturday morning. This will be at the church. This choir is a college age group. We just finished our first semester together and I have some of the same feelings that have been mentioned. Uncertainty of what to do.
So if anyone has any fun activities that I could do with the group either in regular practice or at the retreat, I would appreciate hearing them. The activities can range from beginner's basics to intermediate.
Thanks,
Becky Hildreth
rkhildreth@bsuvc.bsu.edu
College Avenue United Methodist Church
Muncie, IN
[belltalk] Frustration
---Suzy B Bennett wrote:
> ....So what happens, my melody falls apart on the
> introduction, one of my most reliable players turns the
> page at the wrong time and causes two others to get lost
> and the bass notes are perfect! ......
Suzy, we've all been there...or at least 95% of us! For several years I have been directing a group of Ministers of Music who get together as a choir, The Singing Men of Southeast Texas, once a month during the Fall and Spring. These guys are good musicians and early on I learned that when we are before the people, no one can tell what is going to happen... They will do well in rehearsal and then make the dumbest mistakes during performance... I sometimes introduce them by saying this is the most exciting part of our concert because no one knows what is going to happen.
I have learned with them - and other bell groups - that experience is a great helper. The longer we play, before people, the more confident we become.
I have also learned to choose easy music since we have limited rehearsal time with the men and we *Must* have a ring through not long before the service starts.
I have also found with this team and others that with time and experience we get better and God blesses our efforts when we do them to His glory. Don't let it get you down, major on the good parts, laugh at the miscues and continue to give it your best. It will get better.
Blessings,
Bill Ingram
bfingram@yahoo.com
Re: [belltalk] Fw: ADVICE, PLEASE
At 11:05 AM 12/21/98 -0600, Sondra Tucker wrote:
> So do some warm-ups each week - scales, scales in thirds,
> crescendos, diminuendos, scales in contrary motion.
> Anything to get their paying attention to their motion,
> not the printed page. Teach them some ostinatos by rote
> to get them used to keeping rhythm and tempo.
Are there good printed resources available for this type of warm-up?
And how does one fit in the warm-up when we have only an hour and some people are always late (because of work - the time isn't ideal, but choir practice is at 7:30; so we start at 6:30 - difficult for all to get there on time). I resolve to do more technical drills but the resolve invariably gets waylaid.
I HAVE had some success in getting my group to look at me - using the general concept that anything in Italian means "look at me".
Thanks to others for offering their advice. Those of us who are flying by the seat of our pants as directors have much to learn from the experience of you who've been there. My other musical background does little to prepare me for the special challenges of working with my bell group.
Merry Christmas.
Ann Frederking
fredrkng@trytel.com
Re: [belltalk] Fw: ADVICE, PLEASE
Frederking wrote:
> At 11:05 AM 12/21/98 -0600, Sondra Tucker wrote:
>
>> So do some warm-ups each week - scales, scales in thirds,
>> crescendos, diminuendos, scales in contrary motion.
>> Anything to get their paying attention to their motion,
>> not the printed page. Teach them some ostinatos by rote
>> to get them used to keeping rhythm and tempo.
>
> Are there good printed resources available for this type
> of warm-up?
Probably, but you can make them up out of your head just as easy. This is just stuff to get them looking at making the same circles, physically feeling the beat, etc. And the printed stuff is just what I was recommending getting away from for a few minutes - you know, to kinesthetically and aurally train.
> And how does one fit in the warm-up when we have only an
> hour and some people are always late (because of work -
> the time isn't ideal, but choir practice is at 7:30; so
> we start at 6:30 - difficult for all to get there on
> time). I resolve to do more technical drills but the
> resolve invariably gets waylaid.
But if you think about it beforehand, what challenging situations are going to come up in the music? If everyone gets a chance to practice the challenge, whether it's a weave, or just staying together for four beats with the left hand bell then switching, you've saved time already by not having to drill individually when it comes up in the music.
> I HAVE had some success in getting my group to look at me
> - using the general concept that anything in Italian
> means "look at me".
![[Index:]](../img/index.gif){kind=small}